Hi My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We'd really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute. I've been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I'm a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the "lid" domain hidden and vice versa. My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can't figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file. But I'd really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won't load and appears to have errors. I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can't find a tutorial that describes what I'm trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at. Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated. Cheers Bart Bart Janssen Scientist Plant Development team Breeding and genomics Plant and Food Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland 1142 New Zealand Ph +64 09 9257179 bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
Hi Bart I have printed several cryoEM 3D reconstructions that I exported from Chimera as VRML, using the online 3D printing agency shapeways. They have some useful advice on fixing models so they are suitable for 3D printing using two free programs meshlab and netfabb. http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/how_to_use_meshlab_and_netfabb It worked well for me, meshlab may help you reduce the size of your model, while netfabb repairs the surfaces, ensuring they are manifold... Dave On 20 May 2013, at 02:23, Bart Janssen <Bart.Janssen@plantandfood.co.nz> wrote:
Hi
My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We’d really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute.
I’ve been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I’m a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the “lid” domain hidden and vice versa.
My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can’t figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file.
But I’d really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won’t load and appears to have errors.
I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can’t find a tutorial that describes what I’m trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at.
Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers Bart
Bart Janssen Scientist Plant Development team Breeding and genomics Plant and Food Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland 1142 New Zealand
Ph +64 09 9257179 bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited. _______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
You might want to try saving the two domains as separate PDB's if there are export issues with hidden domains. If you hide a domain and then go to save pdb and select "save displayed only" you'll be able to save each domain in it's own file. As far as file formats go, have you tried VRML? I know that's pretty universal for 3D printers and might help with studying the structure as you'd be able to color the atoms by their atom types. Is your 3D printer capable of color? Another thing you might want to try is displaying the protein backbone as ribbon and the sidechain as wire and setting the wire thickness to a higher number. That might give you the internal detail you want without saving the data for every single atom. Also, displaying as Ball and Stick might work too. Those controls are in the Actions > Atoms/bonds menu. Also, are you wanting to include the solvent or are you deleting it? R.J. Swett Wayne State University 357 Chemistry Detroit, MI 48201 Lab Phone 313-577-0552 Cell Phone 906-235-0768 On 5/19/2013 9:23 PM, Bart Janssen wrote:
Hi
My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We'd really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute.
I've been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I'm a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the "lid" domain hidden and vice versa.
My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can't figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file.
But I'd really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won't load and appears to have errors.
I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can't find a tutorial that describes what I'm trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at.
Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Bart
Bart Janssen
Scientist
Plant Development team
Breeding and genomics
Plant and Food Research
Private Bag 92169
Auckland 1142
New Zealand
Ph +64 09 9257179
bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
Hi Bart, Did you see the 3D printing page on the Chimera web site? http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/ModelGallery/index.html and http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/uprint.html Our usual approach to printing plastic models on our uPrint 3d printer is to use surfaces made with the molmap command. This simulates a density map for a molecule at any desired resolution. Then we export as an STL file which the printer software can handle. We make multi-piece models by creating a surface with molmap for each piece. We've encountered various problems using other approaches to print 3d models. My experience with this is a few years old so these problems may not exist now. One was that if you display atoms as spheres (or ball and stick) and try to print the model may come out as lots of pieces. It appears the printer software does not fill the regions that are inside an even number of surfaces. So if two spheres intersect, the intersection region is not filled with plastic. Ribbon display has worked for us but the models are fragile even in the strong PVC plastic we use. Also our printer software has a hard time with large STL files. I think the limit was a few hundred megabytes. That size can be controlled using the "gridSpacing" option to the Chimera molmap command. When printing multi-piece models a significant problem is that the pieces don't fit together because of clashes. For example and ball needs to fit into a socket but it is too big to be pushed through an aperture. Basically the interfaces are not convex and so steric clashes prevent placing them together. You can fix this problem by raising the contour level on the molmap surface (molmap produces a density map and isosurfaces from that density map) to shrink the surface a bit. If you want to get fancy you can use the mask command to chop away obstructions that would prevent the surfaces from fitting together. We have not had any luck printing using VRML or OBJ formats, only STL. But this would depend on your printer software. Those formats do export correctly from Chimera and can be viewed in other software. But they are more complex than the STL format, which is simply a list of triangles making up surfaces. Tom On May 20, 2013, at 6:02 AM, "R.J. Swett" wrote:
You might want to try saving the two domains as separate PDB's if there are export issues with hidden domains. If you hide a domain and then go to save pdb and select "save displayed only" you'll be able to save each domain in it's own file. As far as file formats go, have you tried VRML? I know that's pretty universal for 3D printers and might help with studying the structure as you'd be able to color the atoms by their atom types. Is your 3D printer capable of color? Another thing you might want to try is displaying the protein backbone as ribbon and the sidechain as wire and setting the wire thickness to a higher number. That might give you the internal detail you want without saving the data for every single atom. Also, displaying as Ball and Stick might work too. Those controls are in the Actions > Atoms/bonds menu. Also, are you wanting to include the solvent or are you deleting it? R.J. Swett Wayne State University 357 Chemistry Detroit, MI 48201
Lab Phone 313-577-0552 Cell Phone 906-235-0768 On 5/19/2013 9:23 PM, Bart Janssen wrote:
Hi
My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We’d really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute.
I’ve been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I’m a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the “lid” domain hidden and vice versa.
My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can’t figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file.
But I’d really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won’t load and appears to have errors.
I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can’t find a tutorial that describes what I’m trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at.
Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers Bart
Bart Janssen Scientist Plant Development team Breeding and genomics Plant and Food Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland 1142 New Zealand
Ph +64 09 9257179 bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
Hi All Thanks very much for the replies. Thank you Darrell for the model you made for us. I would still like to learn how to do it for myself though. Dr Swett - I had not realised I could save the domains as new .pdb files and then model them, I think that will work pretty well. Tom I had found those pages but they were pitched a bit above my Chimera skill level, however I did "just have a go" using those command lines for my protein and got a volume. After some trial and error I figured out how to use molmap to make a volume out of the selected domains and have been trying to figure out what all the various options in the volume viewer actually do (apart from completely crashing my computer because I made too many triangles of course). Is there a video tutorial for the volume viewer? I am still not certain exactly what I'm doing with the modifiers on the molmap command Molmap selected 3 grid 0.3 Brings up something I can work with and export an .stl scene from (if I select the desired sequence from the sequence viewer) - but is the "3 grid 0.3" setting the grid spacing? And how will that affect the final .stl model. From my fiddling it seems the first number affects what I would call the resolution with which the volume map is generated, the smaller the number the closer the volume is to the actual individual atoms, bigger numbers create shapes that cover multiple atoms (possibly more "real"), is this number the "gridspacing". The second number (0.3) seems to change the step in a way I just don't understand, yes I can fiddle with the step to get a prettier image but I can't figure out from the "adjust step" description what I am doing. I had a go changing the settings in the surface and mesh options of the volume viewer since they seemed to relate to how detailed the model would become but quickly discovered I could overload my computer :). Too many triangles appears to be a bad thing :). I have a strong sense that I am asking really stupid questions because I lack some basic understanding. Thanks again for all the help Cheers Bart From: chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu [mailto:chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Goddard Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 5:57 a.m. To: R.J. Swett Cc: chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [Chimera-users] 3D Printing our protein Hi Bart, Did you see the 3D printing page on the Chimera web site? http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/ModelGallery/index.html and http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/uprint.html Our usual approach to printing plastic models on our uPrint 3d printer is to use surfaces made with the molmap command. This simulates a density map for a molecule at any desired resolution. Then we export as an STL file which the printer software can handle. We make multi-piece models by creating a surface with molmap for each piece. We've encountered various problems using other approaches to print 3d models. My experience with this is a few years old so these problems may not exist now. One was that if you display atoms as spheres (or ball and stick) and try to print the model may come out as lots of pieces. It appears the printer software does not fill the regions that are inside an even number of surfaces. So if two spheres intersect, the intersection region is not filled with plastic. Ribbon display has worked for us but the models are fragile even in the strong PVC plastic we use. Also our printer software has a hard time with large STL files. I think the limit was a few hundred megabytes. That size can be controlled using the "gridSpacing" option to the Chimera molmap command. When printing multi-piece models a significant problem is that the pieces don't fit together because of clashes. For example and ball needs to fit into a socket but it is too big to be pushed through an aperture. Basically the interfaces are not convex and so steric clashes prevent placing them together. You can fix this problem by raising the contour level on the molmap surface (molmap produces a density map and isosurfaces from that density map) to shrink the surface a bit. If you want to get fancy you can use the mask command to chop away obstructions that would prevent the surfaces from fitting together. We have not had any luck printing using VRML or OBJ formats, only STL. But this would depend on your printer software. Those formats do export correctly from Chimera and can be viewed in other software. But they are more complex than the STL format, which is simply a list of triangles making up surfaces. Tom On May 20, 2013, at 6:02 AM, "R.J. Swett" wrote: You might want to try saving the two domains as separate PDB's if there are export issues with hidden domains. If you hide a domain and then go to save pdb and select "save displayed only" you'll be able to save each domain in it's own file. As far as file formats go, have you tried VRML? I know that's pretty universal for 3D printers and might help with studying the structure as you'd be able to color the atoms by their atom types. Is your 3D printer capable of color? Another thing you might want to try is displaying the protein backbone as ribbon and the sidechain as wire and setting the wire thickness to a higher number. That might give you the internal detail you want without saving the data for every single atom. Also, displaying as Ball and Stick might work too. Those controls are in the Actions > Atoms/bonds menu. Also, are you wanting to include the solvent or are you deleting it? R.J. Swett Wayne State University 357 Chemistry Detroit, MI 48201 Lab Phone 313-577-0552 Cell Phone 906-235-0768 On 5/19/2013 9:23 PM, Bart Janssen wrote: Hi My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We'd really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute. I've been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I'm a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the "lid" domain hidden and vice versa. My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can't figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file. But I'd really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won't load and appears to have errors. I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can't find a tutorial that describes what I'm trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at. Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated. Cheers Bart Bart Janssen Scientist Plant Development team Breeding and genomics Plant and Food Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland 1142 New Zealand Ph +64 09 9257179 bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz<mailto:bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz> The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited. _______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu<mailto:Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users _______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu<mailto:Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
Hi Bart, The Volume Viewer tool has so many features (many also available via the "volume" command) it would be difficult to summarize in a single tutorial. It depends what you are trying to do. However, there are several "how-tos" for specific tasks in this volume tour page: <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/data/tutorials/volumetour/volumetour.html> … and several tutorials that involve density maps and Volume Viewer in some way: <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/tutorials.html> <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/videodoc/videodoc.html> <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/UsersGuide/tutorials/density.html> There are also manual pages for Volume Viewer and related tools, although we certainly realize the learning curve can be steep because there is so much functionality. You can click the "Help" button on a tool to see its manual page, e.g. for Volume Viewer: <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/ContributedSoftware/volumeviewer/framev...> ... and use the command "help" to see the manual page for a command, e.g.: help molmap … which would show this: <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/UsersGuide/midas/molmap.html> In your example molmap command, the "selected" specifies which atoms to use, 3 is the resolution, and "grid 0.3" gives the spacing of grid points in the simulated density map. The command has several additional options. No need to feel bad, there is just a lot of stuff in Chimera and it may take a while to learn what you need and how to use it! I hope this helps, Elaine ---------- Elaine C. Meng, Ph.D. UCSF Computer Graphics Lab (Chimera team) and Babbitt Lab Department of Pharmaceutical Chemistry University of California, San Francisco On May 20, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bart Janssen <Bart.Janssen@plantandfood.co.nz> wrote:
Hi All
Thanks very much for the replies.
Thank you Darrell for the model you made for us. I would still like to learn how to do it for myself though.
Dr Swett - I had not realised I could save the domains as new .pdb files and then model them, I think that will work pretty well.
Tom I had found those pages but they were pitched a bit above my Chimera skill level, however I did “just have a go” using those command lines for my protein and got a volume. After some trial and error I figured out how to use molmap to make a volume out of the selected domains and have been trying to figure out what all the various options in the volume viewer actually do (apart from completely crashing my computer because I made too many triangles of course). Is there a video tutorial for the volume viewer? I am still not certain exactly what I’m doing with the modifiers on the molmap command Molmap selected 3 grid 0.3 Brings up something I can work with and export an .stl scene from (if I select the desired sequence from the sequence viewer) - but is the “3 grid 0.3” setting the grid spacing? And how will that affect the final .stl model. From my fiddling it seems the first number affects what I would call the resolution with which the volume map is generated, the smaller the number the closer the volume is to the actual individual atoms, bigger numbers create shapes that cover multiple atoms (possibly more “real”), is this number the “gridspacing”. The second number (0.3) seems to change the step in a way I just don’t understand, yes I can fiddle with the step to get a prettier image but I can’t figure out from the “adjust step” description what I am doing.
I had a go changing the settings in the surface and mesh options of the volume viewer since they seemed to relate to how detailed the model would become but quickly discovered I could overload my computer :). Too many triangles appears to be a bad thing :).
I have a strong sense that I am asking really stupid questions because I lack some basic understanding. Thanks again for all the help
Cheers Bart
From: chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu [mailto:chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Goddard Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 5:57 a.m. To: R.J. Swett Cc: chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [Chimera-users] 3D Printing our protein
Hi Bart,
Did you see the 3D printing page on the Chimera web site?
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/ModelGallery/index.html
and
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/uprint.html
Our usual approach to printing plastic models on our uPrint 3d printer is to use surfaces made with the molmap command. This simulates a density map for a molecule at any desired resolution. Then we export as an STL file which the printer software can handle. We make multi-piece models by creating a surface with molmap for each piece.
We've encountered various problems using other approaches to print 3d models. My experience with this is a few years old so these problems may not exist now. One was that if you display atoms as spheres (or ball and stick) and try to print the model may come out as lots of pieces. It appears the printer software does not fill the regions that are inside an even number of surfaces. So if two spheres intersect, the intersection region is not filled with plastic. Ribbon display has worked for us but the models are fragile even in the strong PVC plastic we use. Also our printer software has a hard time with large STL files. I think the limit was a few hundred megabytes. That size can be controlled using the "gridSpacing" option to the Chimera molmap command.
When printing multi-piece models a significant problem is that the pieces don't fit together because of clashes. For example and ball needs to fit into a socket but it is too big to be pushed through an aperture. Basically the interfaces are not convex and so steric clashes prevent placing them together. You can fix this problem by raising the contour level on the molmap surface (molmap produces a density map and isosurfaces from that density map) to shrink the surface a bit. If you want to get fancy you can use the mask command to chop away obstructions that would prevent the surfaces from fitting together.
We have not had any luck printing using VRML or OBJ formats, only STL. But this would depend on your printer software. Those formats do export correctly from Chimera and can be viewed in other software. But they are more complex than the STL format, which is simply a list of triangles making up surfaces.
Tom
On May 20, 2013, at 6:02 AM, "R.J. Swett" wrote:
You might want to try saving the two domains as separate PDB's if there are export issues with hidden domains. If you hide a domain and then go to save pdb and select "save displayed only" you'll be able to save each domain in it's own file. As far as file formats go, have you tried VRML? I know that's pretty universal for 3D printers and might help with studying the structure as you'd be able to color the atoms by their atom types. Is your 3D printer capable of color? Another thing you might want to try is displaying the protein backbone as ribbon and the sidechain as wire and setting the wire thickness to a higher number. That might give you the internal detail you want without saving the data for every single atom. Also, displaying as Ball and Stick might work too. Those controls are in the Actions > Atoms/bonds menu. Also, are you wanting to include the solvent or are you deleting it? R.J. Swett Wayne State University 357 Chemistry Detroit, MI 48201
Lab Phone 313-577-0552 Cell Phone 906-235-0768 On 5/19/2013 9:23 PM, Bart Janssen wrote: Hi
My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We’d really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute.
I’ve been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I’m a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the “lid” domain hidden and vice versa.
My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can’t figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file.
But I’d really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won’t load and appears to have errors.
I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can’t find a tutorial that describes what I’m trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at.
Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers Bart
Bart Janssen Scientist Plant Development team Breeding and genomics Plant and Food Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland 1142 New Zealand
Ph +64 09 9257179 bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz
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_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
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Hi Bart, Here are a few more specifics that might help you. The molmap command takes a resolution in Angstroms so it will control how detailed and bumpy your surface is. At 3 Angstroms you will see each atom, at 5 Angstroms you will see alpha-helix sausages, at 10 Angstroms you will see blobs for whole domains. The grid spacing option to the molmap command controls how fine the mesh is that makes up the surface. By default it uses 1/3 the resolution value. But the surface may look a bit jagged because you see the individual triangles making up the surface. A value of about 1/5 of the resolution (e.g. molmap #0 5 grid 1) usually makes the mesh smooth. You used molmap #0 3 grid .3 or grid spacing 1/10 of the resolution which will be super smooth but also 4 times more triangles than grid spacing 0.6. The number of triangles controls entirely how big your STL file is. The other important thing to know is that the vertical bar on the histogram in the Volume Viewer dialog controls the "contour level". The molmap command is computing a simulated density for the molecule and the surface is being displayed at a fixed density level. Moving that vertical bar to the right (higher density) will make the surface contract. So you can control how plump the surface is by adjusting that level. I think those are the only settings that matter for your application. You don't have to make separate PDB files to use molmap. For instance to make a surface for just chain A residues 1-100 of model #0 use "molmap #0:1-100.A 5 grid 1". My comments apply to printing single color plastic models. The STL format does not contain color information. Tom On May 20, 2013, at 3:37 PM, Elaine Meng wrote:
Hi Bart, The Volume Viewer tool has so many features (many also available via the "volume" command) it would be difficult to summarize in a single tutorial. It depends what you are trying to do. However, there are several "how-tos" for specific tasks in this volume tour page:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/data/tutorials/volumetour/volumetour.html>
… and several tutorials that involve density maps and Volume Viewer in some way:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/tutorials.html> <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/videodoc/videodoc.html> <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/UsersGuide/tutorials/density.html>
There are also manual pages for Volume Viewer and related tools, although we certainly realize the learning curve can be steep because there is so much functionality. You can click the "Help" button on a tool to see its manual page, e.g. for Volume Viewer:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/ContributedSoftware/volumeviewer/framev...>
... and use the command "help" to see the manual page for a command, e.g.:
help molmap
… which would show this:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/UsersGuide/midas/molmap.html>
In your example molmap command, the "selected" specifies which atoms to use, 3 is the resolution, and "grid 0.3" gives the spacing of grid points in the simulated density map. The command has several additional options.
No need to feel bad, there is just a lot of stuff in Chimera and it may take a while to learn what you need and how to use it! I hope this helps, Elaine ---------- Elaine C. Meng, Ph.D. UCSF Computer Graphics Lab (Chimera team) and Babbitt Lab Department of Pharmaceutical Chemistry University of California, San Francisco
On May 20, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bart Janssen <Bart.Janssen@plantandfood.co.nz> wrote:
Hi All
Thanks very much for the replies.
Thank you Darrell for the model you made for us. I would still like to learn how to do it for myself though.
Dr Swett - I had not realised I could save the domains as new .pdb files and then model them, I think that will work pretty well.
Tom I had found those pages but they were pitched a bit above my Chimera skill level, however I did “just have a go” using those command lines for my protein and got a volume. After some trial and error I figured out how to use molmap to make a volume out of the selected domains and have been trying to figure out what all the various options in the volume viewer actually do (apart from completely crashing my computer because I made too many triangles of course). Is there a video tutorial for the volume viewer? I am still not certain exactly what I’m doing with the modifiers on the molmap command Molmap selected 3 grid 0.3 Brings up something I can work with and export an .stl scene from (if I select the desired sequence from the sequence viewer) - but is the “3 grid 0.3” setting the grid spacing? And how will that affect the final .stl model. From my fiddling it seems the first number affects what I would call the resolution with which the volume map is generated, the smaller the number the closer the volume is to the actual individual atoms, bigger numbers create shapes that cover multiple atoms (possibly more “real”), is this number the “gridspacing”. The second number (0.3) seems to change the step in a way I just don’t understand, yes I can fiddle with the step to get a prettier image but I can’t figure out from the “adjust step” description what I am doing.
I had a go changing the settings in the surface and mesh options of the volume viewer since they seemed to relate to how detailed the model would become but quickly discovered I could overload my computer :). Too many triangles appears to be a bad thing :).
I have a strong sense that I am asking really stupid questions because I lack some basic understanding. Thanks again for all the help
Cheers Bart
From: chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu [mailto:chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Goddard Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 5:57 a.m. To: R.J. Swett Cc: chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [Chimera-users] 3D Printing our protein
Hi Bart,
Did you see the 3D printing page on the Chimera web site?
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/ModelGallery/index.html
and
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/uprint.html
Our usual approach to printing plastic models on our uPrint 3d printer is to use surfaces made with the molmap command. This simulates a density map for a molecule at any desired resolution. Then we export as an STL file which the printer software can handle. We make multi-piece models by creating a surface with molmap for each piece.
We've encountered various problems using other approaches to print 3d models. My experience with this is a few years old so these problems may not exist now. One was that if you display atoms as spheres (or ball and stick) and try to print the model may come out as lots of pieces. It appears the printer software does not fill the regions that are inside an even number of surfaces. So if two spheres intersect, the intersection region is not filled with plastic. Ribbon display has worked for us but the models are fragile even in the strong PVC plastic we use. Also our printer software has a hard time with large STL files. I think the limit was a few hundred megabytes. That size can be controlled using the "gridSpacing" option to the Chimera molmap command.
When printing multi-piece models a significant problem is that the pieces don't fit together because of clashes. For example and ball needs to fit into a socket but it is too big to be pushed through an aperture. Basically the interfaces are not convex and so steric clashes prevent placing them together. You can fix this problem by raising the contour level on the molmap surface (molmap produces a density map and isosurfaces from that density map) to shrink the surface a bit. If you want to get fancy you can use the mask command to chop away obstructions that would prevent the surfaces from fitting together.
We have not had any luck printing using VRML or OBJ formats, only STL. But this would depend on your printer software. Those formats do export correctly from Chimera and can be viewed in other software. But they are more complex than the STL format, which is simply a list of triangles making up surfaces.
Tom
On May 20, 2013, at 6:02 AM, "R.J. Swett" wrote:
You might want to try saving the two domains as separate PDB's if there are export issues with hidden domains. If you hide a domain and then go to save pdb and select "save displayed only" you'll be able to save each domain in it's own file. As far as file formats go, have you tried VRML? I know that's pretty universal for 3D printers and might help with studying the structure as you'd be able to color the atoms by their atom types. Is your 3D printer capable of color? Another thing you might want to try is displaying the protein backbone as ribbon and the sidechain as wire and setting the wire thickness to a higher number. That might give you the internal detail you want without saving the data for every single atom. Also, displaying as Ball and Stick might work too. Those controls are in the Actions > Atoms/bonds menu. Also, are you wanting to include the solvent or are you deleting it? R.J. Swett Wayne State University 357 Chemistry Detroit, MI 48201
Lab Phone 313-577-0552 Cell Phone 906-235-0768 On 5/19/2013 9:23 PM, Bart Janssen wrote: Hi
My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We’d really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute.
I’ve been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I’m a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the “lid” domain hidden and vice versa.
My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can’t figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file.
But I’d really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won’t load and appears to have errors.
I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can’t find a tutorial that describes what I’m trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at.
Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers Bart
Bart Janssen Scientist Plant Development team Breeding and genomics Plant and Food Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland 1142 New Zealand
Ph +64 09 9257179 bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
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Hi Tom and Elaine Ah! Ok it now makes sense to me. I watched a couple of the videos and while they weren't exactly what I was trying to do they helped with some of the assumed knowledge. They also gave me a sense of just how powerful Chimera is! I picked up that the resolution was in angstroms from one of the videos but your explanation (Tom) of the grid now makes sense of what I was doing to the models (and my computer). At the moment we only have a single colour printer - my paints from when I used to make model planes will come in handy. Hopefully I can now give my colleague who runs the printer a useful file. I'll let you know how it turns out. Cheers Bart -----Original Message----- From: Tom Goddard [mailto:goddard@sonic.net] Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 11:28 a.m. To: chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu List Cc: Bart Janssen Subject: Re: [Chimera-users] 3D Printing our protein Hi Bart, Here are a few more specifics that might help you. The molmap command takes a resolution in Angstroms so it will control how detailed and bumpy your surface is. At 3 Angstroms you will see each atom, at 5 Angstroms you will see alpha-helix sausages, at 10 Angstroms you will see blobs for whole domains. The grid spacing option to the molmap command controls how fine the mesh is that makes up the surface. By default it uses 1/3 the resolution value. But the surface may look a bit jagged because you see the individual triangles making up the surface. A value of about 1/5 of the resolution (e.g. molmap #0 5 grid 1) usually makes the mesh smooth. You used molmap #0 3 grid .3 or grid spacing 1/10 of the resolution which will be super smooth but also 4 times more triangles than grid spacing 0.6. The number of triangles controls entirely how big your STL file is. The other important thing to know is that the vertical bar on the histogram in the Volume Viewer dialog controls the "contour level". The molmap command is computing a simulated density for the molecule and the surface is being displayed at a fixed density level. Moving that vertical bar to the right (higher density) will make the surface contract. So you can control how plump the surface is by adjusting that level. I think those are the only settings that matter for your application. You don't have to make separate PDB files to use molmap. For instance to make a surface for just chain A residues 1-100 of model #0 use "molmap #0:1-100.A 5 grid 1". My comments apply to printing single color plastic models. The STL format does not contain color information. Tom On May 20, 2013, at 3:37 PM, Elaine Meng wrote:
Hi Bart, The Volume Viewer tool has so many features (many also available via the "volume" command) it would be difficult to summarize in a single tutorial. It depends what you are trying to do. However, there are several "how-tos" for specific tasks in this volume tour page:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/data/tutorials/volumetour/volumetour. html>
... and several tutorials that involve density maps and Volume Viewer in some way:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/tutorials.html> <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/videodoc/videodoc.html> <http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/UsersGuide/tutorials/density.htm l>
There are also manual pages for Volume Viewer and related tools, although we certainly realize the learning curve can be steep because there is so much functionality. You can click the "Help" button on a tool to see its manual page, e.g. for Volume Viewer:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/ContributedSoftware/volumeviewer /framevolumeviewer.html>
... and use the command "help" to see the manual page for a command, e.g.:
help molmap
... which would show this:
<http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/chimera/docs/UsersGuide/midas/molmap.html>
In your example molmap command, the "selected" specifies which atoms to use, 3 is the resolution, and "grid 0.3" gives the spacing of grid points in the simulated density map. The command has several additional options.
No need to feel bad, there is just a lot of stuff in Chimera and it may take a while to learn what you need and how to use it! I hope this helps, Elaine ---------- Elaine C. Meng, Ph.D. UCSF Computer Graphics Lab (Chimera team) and Babbitt Lab Department of Pharmaceutical Chemistry University of California, San Francisco
On May 20, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bart Janssen <Bart.Janssen@plantandfood.co.nz> wrote:
Hi All
Thanks very much for the replies.
Thank you Darrell for the model you made for us. I would still like to learn how to do it for myself though.
Dr Swett - I had not realised I could save the domains as new .pdb files and then model them, I think that will work pretty well.
Tom I had found those pages but they were pitched a bit above my Chimera skill level, however I did "just have a go" using those command lines for my protein and got a volume. After some trial and error I figured out how to use molmap to make a volume out of the selected domains and have been trying to figure out what all the various options in the volume viewer actually do (apart from completely crashing my computer because I made too many triangles of course). Is there a video tutorial for the volume viewer? I am still not certain exactly what I'm doing with the modifiers on the molmap command Molmap selected 3 grid 0.3 Brings up something I can work with and export an .stl scene from (if I select the desired sequence from the sequence viewer) - but is the "3 grid 0.3" setting the grid spacing? And how will that affect the final .stl model. From my fiddling it seems the first number affects what I would call the resolution with which the volume map is generated, the smaller the number the closer the volume is to the actual individual atoms, bigger numbers create shapes that cover multiple atoms (possibly more "real"), is this number the "gridspacing". The second number (0.3) seems to change the step in a way I just don't understand, yes I can fiddle with the step to get a prettier image but I can't figure out from the "adjust step" description what I am doing.
I had a go changing the settings in the surface and mesh options of the volume viewer since they seemed to relate to how detailed the model would become but quickly discovered I could overload my computer :). Too many triangles appears to be a bad thing :).
I have a strong sense that I am asking really stupid questions because I lack some basic understanding. Thanks again for all the help
Cheers Bart
From: chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu [mailto:chimera-users-bounces@cgl.ucsf.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Goddard Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 5:57 a.m. To: R.J. Swett Cc: chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [Chimera-users] 3D Printing our protein
Hi Bart,
Did you see the 3D printing page on the Chimera web site?
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/ModelGallery/index.html
and
http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/uprint.html
Our usual approach to printing plastic models on our uPrint 3d printer is to use surfaces made with the molmap command. This simulates a density map for a molecule at any desired resolution. Then we export as an STL file which the printer software can handle. We make multi-piece models by creating a surface with molmap for each piece.
We've encountered various problems using other approaches to print 3d models. My experience with this is a few years old so these problems may not exist now. One was that if you display atoms as spheres (or ball and stick) and try to print the model may come out as lots of pieces. It appears the printer software does not fill the regions that are inside an even number of surfaces. So if two spheres intersect, the intersection region is not filled with plastic. Ribbon display has worked for us but the models are fragile even in the strong PVC plastic we use. Also our printer software has a hard time with large STL files. I think the limit was a few hundred megabytes. That size can be controlled using the "gridSpacing" option to the Chimera molmap command.
When printing multi-piece models a significant problem is that the pieces don't fit together because of clashes. For example and ball needs to fit into a socket but it is too big to be pushed through an aperture. Basically the interfaces are not convex and so steric clashes prevent placing them together. You can fix this problem by raising the contour level on the molmap surface (molmap produces a density map and isosurfaces from that density map) to shrink the surface a bit. If you want to get fancy you can use the mask command to chop away obstructions that would prevent the surfaces from fitting together.
We have not had any luck printing using VRML or OBJ formats, only STL. But this would depend on your printer software. Those formats do export correctly from Chimera and can be viewed in other software. But they are more complex than the STL format, which is simply a list of triangles making up surfaces.
Tom
On May 20, 2013, at 6:02 AM, "R.J. Swett" wrote:
You might want to try saving the two domains as separate PDB's if there are export issues with hidden domains. If you hide a domain and then go to save pdb and select "save displayed only" you'll be able to save each domain in it's own file. As far as file formats go, have you tried VRML? I know that's pretty universal for 3D printers and might help with studying the structure as you'd be able to color the atoms by their atom types. Is your 3D printer capable of color? Another thing you might want to try is displaying the protein backbone as ribbon and the sidechain as wire and setting the wire thickness to a higher number. That might give you the internal detail you want without saving the data for every single atom. Also, displaying as Ball and Stick might work too. Those controls are in the Actions > Atoms/bonds menu. Also, are you wanting to include the solvent or are you deleting it? R.J. Swett Wayne State University 357 Chemistry Detroit, MI 48201
Lab Phone 313-577-0552 Cell Phone 906-235-0768 On 5/19/2013 9:23 PM, Bart Janssen wrote: Hi
My apologies for what are likely to be stupid questions. We are plant developmental biologists and we just obtained our first X-ray crystal structure for a new hormone receptor in plants. We'd really like to make a 3D model of the protein using one of the 3D printers at our institute.
I've been trying to use and understand Chimera for the last week and I'm a bit out of my depth :). I can import our protein 4DNP.pdb and display it using solid surface or using the sphere representations of atoms. I can also display it with the "lid" domain hidden and vice versa.
My problem has been getting files that our 3D printer can read. The solid surface model of the whole protein can be exported as a scene in .stl format and that can be printed just fine. Although I can't figure out how to adjust resolution or the smoothness of the exported file.
But I'd really like to print the two domains of the protein separately. If I use Solid surface model with the lid hidden what I get is an eggshell like model which has no internal detail. If I use atoms shown as spheres instead I get the internal detail I want BUT when I try and export the scene I get a 2 Gb+ file that is unreadable by the printer. If I export .obj format instead the colleague who runs the printer says the file won't load and appears to have errors.
I have a horrible feeling I am going about this entirely the wrong way but I can't find a tutorial that describes what I'm trying to achieve. I do realise chimera is not really written for the somewhat trivial use that I am attempting but it really would be helpful if we had a physical model of the protein to look at.
Is there a tutorial I should follow or another part of Chimera (or another program) that I should be using instead? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers Bart
Bart Janssen Scientist Plant Development team Breeding and genomics Plant and Food Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland 1142 New Zealand
Ph +64 09 9257179 bart.janssen@plantandfood.co.nz
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
_______________________________________________ Chimera-users mailing list Chimera-users@cgl.ucsf.edu http://plato.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-users
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disseminate, distribute or reproduce all or any part of this e-mail or attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Any opinion or views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of The New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research Limited.
participants (5)
-
Bart Janssen -
David Bhella -
Elaine Meng -
R.J. Swett -
Tom Goddard