Re: Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan, The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.) https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_... The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input. I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.) If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this. Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com> <tolung.bio@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review.
Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :)
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that.
We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX
https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu>> wrote:
Hello ChimeraX team and users,
Does ChimeraX support this monitor?
https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...
I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX.
The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output?
Thanks,
Gökhan
_______________________________________________ ChimeraX-users mailing list -- chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> To unsubscribe send an email to chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu> Archives: https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/
Hi Tom, Since I am located in Australia (and the browser automatically detects location), that page shows the prices in AUD, not USD; looks like you missed that. Here’s the US link: https://www.samsung.com/us/monitors/gaming/27-inch-odyssey-3d-g90xf-4k-165hz... So, the USD price is $2K. The review I read (https://cybereality.com/odyssey-3d-review-samsung-pulled-it-off-what-3d-alwa...) says that you need to run its software (that runs under Windows) whenever you need to use 3D content, as it does the head-tracking on your PC, which is actually CPU intensive (i.e., that is not done on the monitor). But as the input goes, all it needs is a full-screen SBS, no other requirements. Can’t you contact Samsung directly and ask for a sample/unit for scientific software development? Cheers, Gökhan From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 7:33 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com Cc: ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor Hi Gökhan, The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.) https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_... The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input. I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.) If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this. Tom On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > wrote: Hi Tom, This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review. Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :) Cheers, Gökhan From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net> > Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor Hi Gökhan, There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that. We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html Tom On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> > wrote: Hello ChimeraX team and users, Does ChimeraX support this monitor? <https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...> https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh... I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX. The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output? Thanks, Gökhan _______________________________________________ ChimeraX-users mailing list -- <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu> chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu Archives: <https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/> https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/
Thanks Gökhan! I missed that the price was in Australian dollars. $2000 is more reasonable but still pricey. I could contact Samsung and ask for a free display, but I give it about 5% chance of success. Also busy with features thousands of people will use (Boltz structure prediction) so it is hard to spend the time to make a display work that a handful of people might use. Sorry about that. Acer asked me to make their display work and brought the display to my desk, and my Sony display was also hand delivered from Stanford university. I think I was a sucker to accept those displays given the few people who will use them, but if someone delivers a display to my desk I am weak and curious and prone to making it work! Tom
On May 8, 2025, at 7:01 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com> <tolung.bio@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
Since I am located in Australia (and the browser automatically detects location), that page shows the prices in AUD, not USD; looks like you missed that.
Here’s the US link: https://www.samsung.com/us/monitors/gaming/27-inch-odyssey-3d-g90xf-4k-165hz...
So, the USD price is $2K.
The review I read (https://cybereality.com/odyssey-3d-review-samsung-pulled-it-off-what-3d-alwa...) says that you need to run its software (that runs under Windows) whenever you need to use 3D content, as it does the head-tracking on your PC, which is actually CPU intensive (i.e., that is not done on the monitor). But as the input goes, all it needs is a full-screen SBS, no other requirements.
Can’t you contact Samsung directly and ask for a sample/unit for scientific software development?
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 7:33 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com Cc: ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_...
The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input.
I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.)
If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this.
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Tom,
This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review.
Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :)
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net>> Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that.
We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX
https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu>> wrote:
Hello ChimeraX team and users,
Does ChimeraX support this monitor?
https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...
I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX.
The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output?
Thanks,
Gökhan
_______________________________________________ ChimeraX-users mailing list -- chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> To unsubscribe send an email to chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu> Archives: https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/
Forgot to add to my previous message: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I am guessing that technically you do not need to have one of these monitors to add ChimeraX functionality that displays the 3D graphics window separately from its 2D menu, right? Since it already has SBS support from the command line, switching to SBS mode should be easy, once that detached graphics window that can be made full-screen (e.g., by a hotkey [keyboard shortcut]) is implemented/available. Of course, another hotkey for flipping left-right for stereo 3D would be nice, in case the full-screen windows is shifted compared to the monitor’s lenticular lens array, for some reason. Naïve questions from a non-developer user: * May it be possible to “stream” the graphics window as a SBS 4K resolution video output into a separate window that can be made full-screen? Based on what I am reading, that should also work with such monitors, right? Or would it be easier to just make the actual 3D window work natively as an SBS 4K full-screen window? * nVidia already has built-in tools for recording and broadcasting. May that be used to achieve this (i.e., use those built-in nVidia broadcasting tools to display ChimeraX output as a full-screen video on the 3D monitor)? Cheers, Gökhan From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 7:33 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com Cc: ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor Hi Gökhan, The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.) https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_... The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input. I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.) If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this. Tom On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > wrote: Hi Tom, This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review. Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :) Cheers, Gökhan From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net> > Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor Hi Gökhan, There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that. We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html Tom On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> > wrote: Hello ChimeraX team and users, Does ChimeraX support this monitor? <https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...> https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh... I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX. The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output? Thanks, Gökhan _______________________________________________ ChimeraX-users mailing list -- <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu> chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu Archives: <https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/> https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/
Hi Greg, The new Samsung Monitor I posted about does track eyes, and therefore, is suitable for a single user (unlike shutter-glasses). See Tom’s reply to my original message about the differences. But it does not change the 3D viewpoint, but only handles the flipping of L/R images as the head moves (at least, that’s my understanding). I really appreciate that you hand-delivered a 3D monitor to Tom; kudos! Cheers, Gökhan From: Greg Pintilie <gregdp@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 12:49 PM To: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Cc: tolung.bio@gmail.com; ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Re: Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor I’d like to chime in here because I’ve been an avid user of many 3D displays over the years. The Samsung monitor here sounds old school, in that it doesn’t track the user’s eyes, like the older technologies that were in retrospect uncomfortable by comparison. I have used SBS mode with these older techs, and it is a pain, I doubt it is worth doing more with it. Tracking the eyes and rendering the image based on eye position and distance to the screen makes the 3D effect a lot more comfortable and natural. As Tom says this takes more computation and is more like VR. It is worth it. I highly recommend the Sony or Acer displays that Tom mentioned, and small side note, I am the proud hand-deliverer of the Sony display to Tom. He has made ChimeraX interface to these displays work really well. I am more optimistic than Tom that these will be used a lot once people experience them and hopefully prices come down some more. They have decreased in price already substantially. See here for more info: Greg On May 9, 2025, at 3:13 AM, Tom Goddard via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> > wrote: Thanks Gökhan! I missed that the price was in Australian dollars. $2000 is more reasonable but still pricey. I could contact Samsung and ask for a free display, but I give it about 5% chance of success. Also busy with features thousands of people will use (Boltz structure prediction) so it is hard to spend the time to make a display work that a handful of people might use. Sorry about that. Acer asked me to make their display work and brought the display to my desk, and my Sony display was also hand delivered from Stanford university. I think I was a sucker to accept those displays given the few people who will use them, but if someone delivers a display to my desk I am weak and curious and prone to making it work! Tom On May 8, 2025, at 7:01 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > wrote: Hi Tom, Since I am located in Australia (and the browser automatically detects location), that page shows the prices in AUD, not USD; looks like you missed that. Here’s the US link: https://www.samsung.com/us/monitors/gaming/27-inch-odyssey-3d-g90xf-4k-165hz... So, the USD price is $2K. The review I read (https://cybereality.com/odyssey-3d-review-samsung-pulled-it-off-what-3d-alwa...) says that you need to run its software (that runs under Windows) whenever you need to use 3D content, as it does the head-tracking on your PC, which is actually CPU intensive (i.e., that is not done on the monitor). But as the input goes, all it needs is a full-screen SBS, no other requirements. Can’t you contact Samsung directly and ask for a sample/unit for scientific software development? Cheers, Gökhan From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net> > Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 7:33 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> > Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor Hi Gökhan, The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.) https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_... The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input. I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.) If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this. Tom On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> > wrote: Hi Tom, This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review. Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :) Cheers, Gökhan From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net> > Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor Hi Gökhan, There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that. We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html Tom On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> > wrote: Hello ChimeraX team and users, Does ChimeraX support this monitor? <https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...> https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh... I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX. The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output? Thanks, Gökhan _______________________________________________ ChimeraX-users mailing list -- <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu> chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu Archives: <https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/> https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/ _______________________________________________ ChimeraX-users mailing list -- chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> To unsubscribe send an email to chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users-leave@cgl.ucsf.edu> Archives: https://mail.cgl.ucsf.edu/mailman/archives/list/chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu/
Hi Gökhan, I could add a full screen mode to ChimeraX without this Samsung display. But we have a million other higher priorities, and not having an actual display where we could test the utility of a full-screen mode makes adding such a mode an even lower priority. Greg Pintilie described the way to use ChimeraX graphics full screen. You undock or hide every tool (all panels, command line, toolbar, hide status line) all of which can be done. You still have the window frame and I'm not sure if Windows can make the window full-screen by removing the window border and title bar, on Mac that is easy, but I don't use Windows much so not sure. You put all those undocked ChimeraX components on another screen and you are good to go. It is so much trouble I don't think you would try it more than once. And as Greg Pintilie mentioned the way the Samsung display works it cannot show you a different view direction if you move your head so he felt it is much inferior to the Sony and Acer that do allow head motions to show a different view direction. Basically the Samsung uses eye-tracking so it can properly direct the left and right eye images to where your left and right eyes are located, but it doesn't send that information back to ChimeraX so it has no way of showing you a different view direction. I don't know of any screencasting approaches to make the ChimeraX graphics full-screen. Tom
On May 8, 2025, at 7:44 PM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
Forgot to add to my previous message:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I am guessing that technically you do not need to have one of these monitors to add ChimeraX functionality that displays the 3D graphics window separately from its 2D menu, right? Since it already has SBS support from the command line, switching to SBS mode should be easy, once that detached graphics window that can be made full-screen (e.g., by a hotkey [keyboard shortcut]) is implemented/available. Of course, another hotkey for flipping left-right for stereo 3D would be nice, in case the full-screen windows is shifted compared to the monitor’s lenticular lens array, for some reason.
Naïve questions from a non-developer user: May it be possible to “stream” the graphics window as a SBS 4K resolution video output into a separate window that can be made full-screen? Based on what I am reading, that should also work with such monitors, right? Or would it be easier to just make the actual 3D window work natively as an SBS 4K full-screen window? nVidia already has built-in tools for recording and broadcasting. May that be used to achieve this (i.e., use those built-in nVidia broadcasting tools to display ChimeraX output as a full-screen video on the 3D monitor)?
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 7:33 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com Cc: ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_...
The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input.
I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.)
If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this.
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Tom,
This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review.
Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :)
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net>> Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that.
We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX
https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu>> wrote:
Hello ChimeraX team and users,
Does ChimeraX support this monitor?
https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...
I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX.
The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output?
Thanks,
Gökhan
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Hi Greg, I mostly agree with your assessment that the OpenXR Sony and Acer displays offer a better experience because just by moving your head you see the molecule from a different direction -- basically it looks like a floating hologram that you can view from different directions. The Samsung display is the old technology where you move your head and it just skews the 3D view -- not great. But the drawback of the OpenXR screens is that OpenXR is complex and poorly supported -- for instance the Acer display currently is not working without ChimeraX hacks because of two OpenXR bugs in Acer's driver. They say they will fix those bugs but I expect it will take 6 months. So the OpenXR displays have the drawbacks of all bleeding-edge technology, costly and buggy. The Sony display OpenXR works but even displaying nothing in ChimeraX it ramps up to 50% CPU usage on a 12 core i7 CPU with the fan going full-blast, so loud that I am reluctant to use the display Greg loaned me other than for testing. Again bleeding edge, poorly implemented. Sadly I have yet to see any 3D stereoscopic viewing technology in the last 30 years (shutter glasses, polarized row-interleaved screens, red-blue glasses, VR headsets, glasses-free lenticular displays, ..., our lab has tried all of them) that wasn't a pain in the neck and only usable by very technically savvy people. Because we are focused on providing capabilities in ChimeraX that are widely used (that's what we get funding for) I can only spend limited time on these fringe 3D devices. My broad view of it is that there are so few good uses of 3D displays outside science that no company can afford the truly massive investment that would be needed to make a display work well. The latest attempt, VR headsets, is a prime example with Meta throwing more than $50 billion at it to produce something that is too painful (1 pound brick worn on your face? really?) for anything but niche uses (like molecular biology). Tom
On May 8, 2025, at 7:49 PM, Greg Pintilie via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
I’d like to chime in here because I’ve been an avid user of many 3D displays over the years.
The Samsung monitor here sounds old school, in that it doesn’t track the user’s eyes, like the older technologies that were in retrospect uncomfortable by comparison. I have used SBS mode with these older techs, and it is a pain, I doubt it is worth doing more with it.
Tracking the eyes and rendering the image based on eye position and distance to the screen makes the 3D effect a lot more comfortable and natural. As Tom says this takes more computation and is more like VR. It is worth it.
I highly recommend the Sony or Acer displays that Tom mentioned, and small side note, I am the proud hand-deliverer of the Sony display to Tom. He has made ChimeraX interface to these displays work really well. I am more optimistic than Tom that these will be used a lot once people experience them and hopefully prices come down some more. They have decreased in price already substantially.
See here for more info:
https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html
Greg
On May 9, 2025, at 3:13 AM, Tom Goddard via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
Thanks Gökhan! I missed that the price was in Australian dollars. $2000 is more reasonable but still pricey. I could contact Samsung and ask for a free display, but I give it about 5% chance of success. Also busy with features thousands of people will use (Boltz structure prediction) so it is hard to spend the time to make a display work that a handful of people might use. Sorry about that. Acer asked me to make their display work and brought the display to my desk, and my Sony display was also hand delivered from Stanford university. I think I was a sucker to accept those displays given the few people who will use them, but if someone delivers a display to my desk I am weak and curious and prone to making it work!
Tom
On May 8, 2025, at 7:01 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com> <tolung.bio@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
Since I am located in Australia (and the browser automatically detects location), that page shows the prices in AUD, not USD; looks like you missed that.
Here’s the US link: https://www.samsung.com/us/monitors/gaming/27-inch-odyssey-3d-g90xf-4k-165hz...
So, the USD price is $2K.
The review I read (https://cybereality.com/odyssey-3d-review-samsung-pulled-it-off-what-3d-alwa...) says that you need to run its software (that runs under Windows) whenever you need to use 3D content, as it does the head-tracking on your PC, which is actually CPU intensive (i.e., that is not done on the monitor). But as the input goes, all it needs is a full-screen SBS, no other requirements.
Can’t you contact Samsung directly and ask for a sample/unit for scientific software development?
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 7:33 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com Cc: ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_...
The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input.
I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.)
If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this.
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Tom,
This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review.
Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :)
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net>> Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that.
We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX
https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu>> wrote:
Hello ChimeraX team and users,
Does ChimeraX support this monitor?
https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...
I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX.
The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output?
Thanks,
Gökhan
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Hi Tom, I was super happy to see that with the Acer and Sony screens, it’s as easy as connecting the screen, installing the drivers, and typing ‘XR on’ in ChimeraX. Everything works nicely in the main window after all your updates. You’re right it took a lot of fiddling with the older techs. But, the Samsung and older SBS techs may actually still have some advantages, if you can get past the pain of using them. Btw, you can still actually get a 3D projector and generic shutter glasses, for ~$700 you could have a 3D setup, I will put some example links below. I don’t think this was ever documented anywhere, just in case it helps here are more details: SBS Mode (e.g. 3D projector or Samsung monitor) - Works on Mac, Linux, or Windows - Works with ChimeraX and Chimera - In ChimeraX, use "camera sbs” command, then “camera mono” to switch back - In Chimera, set SBS mode from Tolls -> Viewing Controls -> Camera -> camera mode DTI side by side stereo - Make sure to maximize the main 3D window on the 3D screen - The cursor is ghost-like because it’s only shown on one side at a time, so only one eye sees it, but you can actually interact with the 3D scene once you get used to it. For selection, you have to first figure out which eye is seeing the cursor, then figure out if the selection is in the right or left side. Helps to close one eye, click to select. If the selection is off, close the other eye and move the mouse to the other side. For rotation, it’s based at the center of the screen, so you have to move the cursor to the edge of what you see with your left eye, then rotate. - For the 3D projector, you can have multiple viewers, because the projector can send the signal to multiple 3D glasses at once. - No eye tracking, so the 3D effect is not optimal, but still can be quite comfortable and effective. You have to play with the eye separation and distance to screen most of the time to make it more comfortable. In Chimera, these are in the Tools -> Viewing Controls -> Camera. In ChimeraX, it is via the “camera" command ("help camera” command shows details). - 3D shutter glasses typically have a button that switch left and right eyes. If you are not seeing the scene in 3D, and eye separation and distance to screen have not helped, press this button to switch, then adjust the parameters again. XR mode (e.g. Acer and Sony monitors) - Only Windows Drivers - Only ChimeraX, works via the command “xr on" - You interact with your scene in the main window, so you have to look back and forth from the main window to 3D monitor. On the other hand, you don’t have to put on the 3D glasses. - Rotation and Selection work as usual in the main window. - Just one viewer at a time, but you could be showing something to someone else, e.g. they would be looking at the 3D monitor, and you are controlling the scene on the main window. - The eye tracking makes the 3D effect much more comfortable. No need to play with eye separation and distance to screen. (For the Samsung monitor, the eye distance and tracking would not be sent to ChimeraX, so you would have to play with the eye separation and distance to screen parameters as in the SBS mode.) Also, why even bother with 3D. There is a bit of a cheesy wow factor to it, but does it add any real value? I think it does. One of my advisors who got me hooked on 3D said he used pipe cleaners to build actual models of proteins. There is nothing like seeing a protein structure in real 3D, I would say. There have been many times I had trouble seeing how things fit together in a cryoEM map, and when you put it in 3D mode, it just literally pops out. Or times when I am looking at a cryoEM map map at the protein backbone level, and the path through the density is not too obvious. Again, put it in 3D and it becomes much easier to see. 3D projector example: https://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD146X-Performance-Projector-Enhanced/dp/B0842... 3D generic shutter glasses example: https://www.amazon.ca/Universal-DLP-Link-Projectors-Lightweight-Rechargeable... Hope that all helps, Greg
On May 9, 2025, at 10:47 AM, Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> wrote:
Hi Greg,
I mostly agree with your assessment that the OpenXR Sony and Acer displays offer a better experience because just by moving your head you see the molecule from a different direction -- basically it looks like a floating hologram that you can view from different directions. The Samsung display is the old technology where you move your head and it just skews the 3D view -- not great. But the drawback of the OpenXR screens is that OpenXR is complex and poorly supported -- for instance the Acer display currently is not working without ChimeraX hacks because of two OpenXR bugs in Acer's driver. They say they will fix those bugs but I expect it will take 6 months. So the OpenXR displays have the drawbacks of all bleeding-edge technology, costly and buggy. The Sony display OpenXR works but even displaying nothing in ChimeraX it ramps up to 50% CPU usage on a 12 core i7 CPU with the fan going full-blast, so loud that I am reluctant to use the display Greg loaned me other than for testing. Again bleeding edge, poorly implemented.
Sadly I have yet to see any 3D stereoscopic viewing technology in the last 30 years (shutter glasses, polarized row-interleaved screens, red-blue glasses, VR headsets, glasses-free lenticular displays, ..., our lab has tried all of them) that wasn't a pain in the neck and only usable by very technically savvy people. Because we are focused on providing capabilities in ChimeraX that are widely used (that's what we get funding for) I can only spend limited time on these fringe 3D devices. My broad view of it is that there are so few good uses of 3D displays outside science that no company can afford the truly massive investment that would be needed to make a display work well. The latest attempt, VR headsets, is a prime example with Meta throwing more than $50 billion at it to produce something that is too painful (1 pound brick worn on your face? really?) for anything but niche uses (like molecular biology).
Tom
On May 8, 2025, at 7:49 PM, Greg Pintilie via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
I’d like to chime in here because I’ve been an avid user of many 3D displays over the years.
The Samsung monitor here sounds old school, in that it doesn’t track the user’s eyes, like the older technologies that were in retrospect uncomfortable by comparison. I have used SBS mode with these older techs, and it is a pain, I doubt it is worth doing more with it.
Tracking the eyes and rendering the image based on eye position and distance to the screen makes the 3D effect a lot more comfortable and natural. As Tom says this takes more computation and is more like VR. It is worth it.
I highly recommend the Sony or Acer displays that Tom mentioned, and small side note, I am the proud hand-deliverer of the Sony display to Tom. He has made ChimeraX interface to these displays work really well. I am more optimistic than Tom that these will be used a lot once people experience them and hopefully prices come down some more. They have decreased in price already substantially.
See here for more info:
https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html
Greg
On May 9, 2025, at 3:13 AM, Tom Goddard via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
Thanks Gökhan! I missed that the price was in Australian dollars. $2000 is more reasonable but still pricey. I could contact Samsung and ask for a free display, but I give it about 5% chance of success. Also busy with features thousands of people will use (Boltz structure prediction) so it is hard to spend the time to make a display work that a handful of people might use. Sorry about that. Acer asked me to make their display work and brought the display to my desk, and my Sony display was also hand delivered from Stanford university. I think I was a sucker to accept those displays given the few people who will use them, but if someone delivers a display to my desk I am weak and curious and prone to making it work!
Tom
On May 8, 2025, at 7:01 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com> <tolung.bio@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
Since I am located in Australia (and the browser automatically detects location), that page shows the prices in AUD, not USD; looks like you missed that.
Here’s the US link: https://www.samsung.com/us/monitors/gaming/27-inch-odyssey-3d-g90xf-4k-165hz...
So, the USD price is $2K.
The review I read (https://cybereality.com/odyssey-3d-review-samsung-pulled-it-off-what-3d-alwa...) says that you need to run its software (that runs under Windows) whenever you need to use 3D content, as it does the head-tracking on your PC, which is actually CPU intensive (i.e., that is not done on the monitor). But as the input goes, all it needs is a full-screen SBS, no other requirements.
Can’t you contact Samsung directly and ask for a sample/unit for scientific software development?
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net> Sent: Friday, 9 May 2025 7:33 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com Cc: ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
The Samsung web page you referenced says the monitor is $3000, the same price as the Acer 27", and the Samsung also uses eye-tracking so it will probably only work for one person. The Sony and Acer displays both use OpenXR and eye tracking. This is good and bad. The good part is as you move your head to the side you see the side of the rendered objects. The bad is that most 3D applications do not support OpenXR unless they are VR applications. In contrast the Samsung uses side-by-side video input. That allows it to work with any 3D application that supports that common 3D format. Here's a description on Reddit talking about side-by-side input with the Samsung. (Unfortunately the Samsung manual does not say much.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/1k8wnqa/samsung_odyssey_3d_g90xf_...
The drawback of the Samsung approach is that the monitor has no way to tell the application (e.g. ChimeraX) that your head has moved to the side (that is what OpenXR does). So when you move your head to the side you just see the same view direction of the 3D object only skewed. It's not a disaster, you can rotate the molecule if you want to see it from the side. The Samsung manual says only Windows is supported since they include some crappy software that runs on your Windows machine. I'm not sure if it is needed to handle side-by-side input.
I'd love to see the Samsung display. It uses a 4K panel like the Sony and Acer. Like those displays it must be using a lenticular grating to send some pixels to your left eye and some to your right eye so the actual resolution in 3D is more like HD (2K). Still that is pretty good. (With old technology LCD shutter glasses you would get full 4K resolution since the two eye images use all screen pixels and just alternate in time.)
If I had one of these displays I think I could make ChimeraX render full-screen side-by-side. Since you can't drag the ChimeraX graphics into a separate window I would try to add code to create a separate window and render to it as an option. My lab does not have money to spare to buy such a display (NIH funding problems), so don't expect to work on this.
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 11:19 PM, <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> <tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Tom,
This Samsung is less than half the price (27” for 2K USD) compared to the SONY in the review.
Let me know if you can score one of these to test/develop for :)
Cheers,
Gökhan
From: Tom Goddard <goddard@sonic.net <mailto:goddard@sonic.net>> Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2025 8:45 AM To: tolung.bio@gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio@gmail.com> Cc: chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] Samsung 27" Odyssey 3D G90XF 4K 165Hz Monitor
Hi Gökhan,
There is no ChimeraX capability to make the graphics pane full screen, so it will not work with a 3D display that wants full-screen side-by-side stereo format. The graphics pane is not a docked panel like the other ChimeraX tools. The ChimeraX main window is a Qt QMainWindow which treats that center area specially and it cannot be detached into a floating window. I'm not sure how hard it would be to allow that.
We are also working on glasses-free eye-tracked 3D displays such as the Sony Spatial Reality and Acer SpatialLabs displays. They use OpenXR and only work on Windows and only with 1 person viewing, and costly $3000-5000, so they have some limitations. Here's a description of trying the Sony 3D display with ChimeraX
https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/sony3d-mar2025/sony3d.html
Tom
On May 7, 2025, at 12:24 AM, Gokhan via ChimeraX-users <chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu <mailto:chimerax-users@cgl.ucsf.edu>> wrote:
Hello ChimeraX team and users,
Does ChimeraX support this monitor?
https://www.samsung.com/au/monitors/gaming/odyssey-3d-g90xf-27-inch-165hz-uh...
I read a very positive review about this monitor and may consider buying one if it works with ChimeraX.
The review says that this monitor needs a full-screen side-by-side output. Just as many of the sub-windows of ChimeraX can be docked and undocked (e.g., log, Models, etc.), is there way to ‘undock’ the main graphics window to make it full screen? Or, is there a way to display the graphics window on a secondary monitor as a full-screen output?
Thanks,
Gökhan
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participants (3)
-
Greg Pintilie -
tolung.bio＠gmail.com -
Tom Goddard